Interview with Professor Talip Küçükcan and Associate Professor Bekir S. Gür
Universities that have not been active in debates concerning long-standing higher education problems are preparing to discuss these issues, and two ambitious academicians, Professor Talip Küçükcan and Associate Professor Bekir S. Gür, are leading efforts to start debates at universities.
Pointing out how strange it is that universities are not involved in solving problems with higher education, Küçükcan said: “We want to start a broad debate on the future of higher education. Unfortunately, in Turkey, universities never take part in debates concerning university issues. Our goal is to start debating university-related topics at universities.”
Noting that they have received very positive feedback concerning their goal and efforts, Gür said that although there is consensus on the need to change the system, there is no debate on how the change will actually take place. He explained that a broad debate where many people participate is necessary to determine how to implement the change, adding, “With the report we have prepared, with the discussion panels we will organize and with the analyses we have conducted on the system in general, we aim to facilitate debates and contribute to the development of a debate platform.”
Committed to addressing the higher education problem in Turkey, Küçükcan and Gür shared information about the comprehensive report they prepared with Today's Zaman. The two professors analyzed and compared the higher education system in nine countries and formulated proposals on improving the system in Turkey. They believe a large portion of their proposals can and will be implemented in the short term.
In order to create a debate platform that will include representatives from universities, the professors released a report titled “A Comparative Analysis of Higher Education in Turkey,” in which they compared the Turkish system to systems in the US, Germany, France, the UK, Poland, Sweden, Israel, Japan and China. They plan to organize discussion panels in universities starting in September to debate their proposals.
Küçükcan noted that problems with higher education stem from the Higher Education Board (YÖK) being a constitutional institution, adding that for this reason issues that require amendments to the Constitution can only be resolved in the medium and long term.
Highlighting that in the other countries they analyzed higher education was not coordinated by a constitutional institution, Gür said the reason it is different in Turkey extends to the Sept. 12, 1980 coup administration's desire to have control over everything. But this mentality existed prior to the 1980 coup, he said, adding that even opening a university in Ankara was debated in the 1940s and 1950s.
In response to the system's centralist approach in coordinating higher education, the civilians mistakenly adopt an ideological approach to the problem, Küçükcan said, adding that they wanted to start a “rational and knowledge-based debate.”
He explained that when they asked experts for their views on the draft report, only a very limited number of them commented. Although there is a consensus on reforming higher education in Turkey, ideological perspectives prevent reform from taking place, Küçükcan said, adding: “There is a lot of talk but no action in Turkey when it comes to higher education. We wanted to have a rational debate based on data in this field.
Unfortunately, all debates regarding higher education were from a politically ideological perspective. Although there is consensus on the need for reform in higher education in every segment of society and in almost every political outlook, when you say, ‘Come let's do this all together,' you realize that there is a serious lack of information. Reforms, innovation, changes and modern developments or developments to make the system up to date were delayed up until now because there was no road map.”
An accountable and democratic university
Professor Gür explained that they dealt with universities as autonomous structures in their report and noted that while comparing them to universities in other countries, they focused on the basic function of a university and how a university fulfilled those functions.
Noting the most important factor that affects basic functions, such as education, research and knowledge generation, was the composition of the university's top management, Gür said: “We observed that university elections caused serious clashes, especially over ideological views. These clashes and separations come up during every rector elections, and every rector invests according to what will get him re-elected. After rectors are elected and appointed, they protect and favor only those that voted for them. We realized that this kind of a system does not exist anywhere else in the world.”
Gür explained that in most countries, university administration is determined according to an appointment-based system, which is managed by boards such as appointment boards or a board of trustees.
“We observed that the structure of these boards were actually democratic, participatory and also accountable,” Gür said, adding that having a board of trustees in university administration is a top priority for Turkey.
Gür went on to say that it was critical for the formation of these boards to be based on democratic practices and methods. “They must be the representatives of the people. In other words, officials elected by the people must also have a say in the election of top management at universities,” he said.
Highlighting the importance of being able to audit universities, Küçükcan stated, “Universities must be able to account for how resources are spent and how efficiently they are used.” He noted that universities around the world are subject to his kind of control, adding: “Education and research in universities must be reviewed in line with the autonomy of the university. By this I don't mean the university should be audited or police should be stationed on campus. I mean the university should be accountable. A university needs to be able to explain where, when and how efficiently it used its resources. There are different methods around the world, but auditing takes place one way or another. According to the results, funds to the university can be increased or decreased and changes to the administration can be made.”
Highlighting that this kind of culture has not evolved yet in Turkey because universities don't practice it within their own body, Küçükcan said problems will partially be resolved with the development of this culture.
‘There is no department in universities planning the future of higher education'
What was the most important problem you faced while preparing this report?
The most important problem was that aside from higher education and schooling institutions, there was no background information on university systems.
That's a very big problem. Didn't you have any plans for a larger team project?
When we embarked on this journey, that's what we had in mind. We said, “Let's set up a team for this job.” We wanted professors from education faculties or other people interested in the job to be on the team. But we saw that aside from one or two people, no one had any information on higher education. There is a serious gap in knowledge. Not only is there no information but there's no institutional work, either.
Isn't there a department that deals with this in YÖK?
Unfortunately, no faculty of education or university has a department that deals with institutes of higher education. There is no department, no masters program and no doctoral program on this subject. We have close to 150 universities today. But we have no knowledge on what higher education administration is, how to finance it or how to ensure its quality.
You want to start a debate on higher education, but isn't it already one of the most commonly discussed issues in Turkey?
Unfortunately, the majority of what is discussed is not based on research, knowledge or objective data. It is more about political and ideological approaches.
What kind of feedback have you received after releasing the report?
My first impression was positive. We received feedback calling it a road map study and saying that it was very informative. We plan on organizing discussion panels at universities after schools open in September in order to expand the scope of debate. We aim to have the universities take over the discussion.
By when do you expect your proposals to be implemented?
Professor Küçükcan: Beyond having our proposals implemented, it's about debating these issues with a wide university audience, nongovernmental organizations and the media. Our chief objective is to start a debate outside of a political and ideological context. Our goal is to get universities involved and deeply engaged in the debates.
Associate Professor Gür: It's a little difficult to predict that. By the time we started working on the report and by the time we finished it, some proposals had already gone into effect. One was the mobility of students within the country. The Farabi program was started by YÖK. Any student can now transfer from one university to another and receive a grant as an incentive. Sometimes developments in Turkey happen much quicker than expected.
Do you have any proposals that can be implemented in the short run?
Some of our proposals concern regulations and bylaws. We believe these issues will be handled in the short term. But some of our proposals require constitutional changes, and we believe those will go into effect in the medium and long term.
You are also consultant commission members of YÖK. What was YÖK's reaction to your report?
When we started the study we did not have the post at YÖK. There is a desire to change the YÖK in YÖK as well. But there was no road map to do so. Our report serves as a road map. It shows what the main topics are. The feedback has been very positive. In this way, YÖK has partially accepted it and we believe it will be considered in the drawing up of a road map.
Did you meet with political parties? If so, what reaction did you receive?
The approach of political parties was extremely political. At first we thought about asking for their views, but when we saw competition take over, we changed our minds. There were some that openly said that they would not support any proposal offered by another political party even if it was a proposal they approved.
There was mention about you defending activities of politicians.
That was a newspaper's criticism that exceeded its purpose. We are talking about elected people. We weren't implying that politicians should be active in YÖK. What we are trying to say is that public will should be involved in university administration and elected people should be the intermediaries.
There are universities set up by foundations but no private universities in Turkey. How do you assess this?
Nowhere in the world is there a single-type university any longer. Universities need to vary, in terms of knowledge generation, education and raising professors. In a way, this is a public service. Even if it is a private university or a for-profit university, it is a public service. In a country where the balance between supply and demand is not completely established and where so many people are trying to get into college, opening up private universities is very important. This will bring along with it competition for variety and quality both in terms of administration and the source of finance.
Today's Zaman - August 10, 2009
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